The Role Dads Need To Play in a Kid’s Education

00;00;05;01 – 00;00;23;11

Paul Sullivan

I’m Paul Sullivan, your host on the Company of Dads podcast, where we explore the sweet, sublime, strange and silly aspects of being a dad in a world where men were the primary parents often feel they have to hide, or at least not talk about the rules. One thing I know from personal experience is being a dad is not a traditional role for men.

 

00;00;23;17 – 00;00;43;10

Paul Sullivan

Parenting is so often left to mothers for paid cake caregivers. But here at the Company of Dads, our goal is to shake all that off and create a community for fathers who have stepped up to be lead dads, and for other dads who want to learn from them. Today, my guest is Jeff Forte, special education attorney in Connecticut, an advocate for parents and children.

 

00;00;43;12 – 00;01;07;13

Paul Sullivan

Jeff runs one of the few law practices in the state dedicated entirely to helping families navigate the state’s special education laws to ensure that their children get an appropriate education. Sometimes this means negotiating with the school district to get more services for a child who may be struggling with reading or math. Other times, it means suing that district to pay for the child to be placed into a school that suits his or her educational and behavioral need better.

 

00;01;07;15 – 00;01;23;27

Paul Sullivan

His wife, Doctor Shalonda Forte, is the executive director of Solstice Behavioral Health and Consulting. They have two sons and live in a farm in rural Connecticut. Jeff also has a national podcast called Let’s Talk Sped law. Jeff, welcome to the company of dad’s podcast.

 

00;01;24;00 – 00;01;26;12

Jeffrey Forte

Hey, Paul, thanks for having me on the show.

 

00;01;26;15 – 00;01;30;28

Paul Sullivan

All right. I’m going to save the farm for later because we could go really, you know.

 

00;01;31;03 – 00;01;32;07

Jeffrey Forte

Off the whole podcast.

 

00;01;32;07 – 00;01;41;21

Paul Sullivan

To a whole podcast, and we’ll get to that later if they have time. But so let’s let’s focus here. How did you choose this area of the law to be your your specialty?

 

00;01;41;23 – 00;02;09;25

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. You know, I get that question a lot. It’s really a very eclectic and quite niche practice to, you know, get to wake up every day, come to work and help children get a better education than they otherwise would have without my legal interventions. You know, the gist of it is, while I was in law school, I always thought I’d be, you know, become like this, you know, big litigator type of lawyer, right?

 

00;02;09;28 – 00;02;38;03

Jeffrey Forte

And I tried that for a while, but during my, clerkships and internships and so forth, during law school, I worked at a juvenile detention center. And long story short, there was a child that every time an adult would try to intervene and help him at school or help him in the community, he would want to, grab a pen and stab that that that adult.

 

00;02;38;05 – 00;02;40;18

Jeffrey Forte

So he he was arrested for it.

 

00;02;40;20 – 00;02;41;24

Paul Sullivan

How old was he?

 

00;02;41;27 – 00;03;04;10

Jeffrey Forte

He was, 12 years old. Wow. Big kid actually. And, you know, I’m going in there, you know, just completely green as a as a second year law school student in the, criminal defense clinic for for children and youth offenders. And, I just downright asked them, you know, listen, whether you like it or not, I’m here to help you.

 

00;03;04;11 – 00;03;24;22

Jeffrey Forte

Why do you keep doing this? He says, well, if I heard enough people, I’m going to be able to see my dad. And I said, well, where’s your father? And he says, well, my father’s in prison and I want to be his cellmate. Yeah. And it really stuck with me because at the time, you know, I would I didn’t even know what, like a full scale IQ score was in law school yet, right?

 

00;03;24;27 – 00;03;47;22

Jeffrey Forte

But I started to realize this child is not fully capable of understand what he’s doing right now. And we got a psychiatric val and a neuropsychological and all that. And we were able to say, well, look, with some additional supports in place. We could still get him to see his dad, but, we could we can make him more successful.

 

00;03;47;24 – 00;04;12;15

Jeffrey Forte

So then you kind of fast forward. I’m working on a large law firm here in Connecticut for for a number of years, trying different. Lots of cases. But I’m always volunteering and helping kids kind of on, like, a, you know, a pro bono basis, so, so to speak. I helped get my wife through her doctoral level, education as a board certified behavior analyst.

 

00;04;12;17 – 00;04;34;05

Jeffrey Forte

And once she got her degree, she says, you know, Jeff, you should really start doing what you’re doing pro-bono on a, on a, on a firm wide basis because there’s there’s some significant help and need for this. And I’ve never looked back. You know, I was a juvenile public defender for a while as well. So I had that juvenile aspect of it.

 

00;04;34;07 – 00;04;39;05

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. And then we have a child that has an IEP for dyslexia. So I get it.

 

00;04;39;05 – 00;04;42;15

Paul Sullivan

Is that for the listeners? What’s an IEP? What does that mean?

 

00;04;42;17 – 00;05;20;16

Jeffrey Forte

Short IEP is what, a child that has a disability is entitled to receive what’s called an individualized education plan. And it’s something that a school under the federal law not to get too deep into the weeds is obligated to provide when a child may be presenting with challenges in accessing their education at school. So you’re essentially getting your child more supports than what a, you know, typical neurotypical child would be receiving by advancing and matriculating by grade degree degree.

 

00;05;20;18 – 00;05;26;01

Jeffrey Forte

You’re giving the child more supports by way of special education and some related services.

 

00;05;26;03 – 00;05;42;16

Paul Sullivan

I feel like we’re, you know, not to come back to the farm, but I feel like we’re putting the cart before the horse when we talk about the IEP. So. So why don’t we back up and say, you know, when you’re a father is a company of dad, father or a mother and you know, you have a child who you think has a learning challenge or some sort of cognitive disability.

 

00;05;42;23 – 00;05;58;04

Paul Sullivan

What are the biggest challenges for those parents? You know, right out of the gate, I’m going to guess identifies by one of them. But what are the challenges that that they need to to, to face, you know, early on or when that challenges is identified.

 

00;05;58;07 – 00;06;18;15

Jeffrey Forte

One of the challenges is just knowing where the resources are. Okay. You know, although my practice is in Connecticut because I’m licensed Connecticut, the the federal laws regarding special education are statewide. They’re across the country. And they’re federally mandated.

 

00;06;18;15 – 00;06;21;27

Paul Sullivan

So the meaning, regardless of where you live, you should be able to have.

 

00;06;22;02 – 00;06;22;20

Jeffrey Forte

That’s right.

 

00;06;22;23 – 00;06;27;12

Paul Sullivan

You live in Connecticut. You get a you live in Florida, you get it. You live in Montana. You get it, right?

 

00;06;27;14 – 00;06;56;16

Jeffrey Forte

Okay. The unfortunate reality is it can vary in the interpretation of the supports from state to state. But primarily, you know, dad should know what the individuals with disabilities education Act is or the American Disabilities Act or section 504 of the 1973 Rehabilitation Act. These are laws that have been put into play to assist children. Now, most most dads aren’t going to know this.

 

00;06;56;18 – 00;07;25;19

Jeffrey Forte

I actually did a little bit of research in advance of the show, and there’s a, there’s a survey that was commissioned in the late 1990s and then again in the early 2000 by the National Center for fathering. And essentially what it showed was that dads really, statistically don’t get that deeply involved in their child’s, education and schooling.

 

00;07;25;21 – 00;07;26;16

Jeffrey Forte

Most dads.

 

00;07;26;22 – 00;07;32;06

Paul Sullivan

Why why is that? Why they just is is. Yeah. Correctly or why aren’t they that involved?

 

00;07;32;08 – 00;08;05;24

Jeffrey Forte

Work wise. They, they think school is where the school team handles their child’s education, and they just they don’t necessarily get that involved. It’s more like the dad role was typically where they’re going to sporting events to help their kid. But they’re not, you know, they’re not, visiting their child’s classroom. They may not even know what their child’s teacher’s name is or let alone their, their, their child’s pediatrician’s name is.

 

00;08;05;25 – 00;08;07;02

Paul Sullivan

Yeah.

 

00;08;07;04 – 00;08;47;19

Jeffrey Forte

You know, helping with homework or a or big school project. You typically will see, you know, you know, dads go to, you know, plays and recitals and sports, but the, the, the parent teacher conference, reviewing report cards, helping with homework going on to, you know, Google Classroom every week to make sure assignments may begin. These are things that even just without qualifying for special education, the more parents moms two of course, are involved, the more informed you’re going to be about your child within the educational community.

 

00;08;47;22 – 00;09;02;05

Jeffrey Forte

And I think it’s something that gets lost a lot is, you know, what is an educational community? And it involves parents. I mean, it’s not just the school team. Parents should realize that they are part of their child’s school team.

 

00;09;02;07 – 00;09;33;09

Paul Sullivan

Yeah. I mean, one of the things we’re trying to do here with the company of dads is, is to make it okay for men to do exactly this, to to really be, you know, full participants in their children’s, you know, education in their whole, you know, family life. But you know, that study that you’re talking about, you mean, hey, you know, everything’s always backward looking but have maybe anecdotally in your own practice, have you seen any changes, during the past couple of years with Covid, where at least in some communities, you know, mom and dad, or did you know dad if he was commuting?

 

00;09;33;11 – 00;09;47;29

Paul Sullivan

They’re working at home and they’re getting to see their kids learn on zoom, and they’re getting to see their kids, you know, having these challenges, being in school. And I was school has that in some way made, you know, fathers more, involved or is it, you know, too early to tell?

 

00;09;48;01 – 00;10;29;12

Jeffrey Forte

Know, you’re on to something there for sure. I have seen firsthand, an increase in parental participation as a result of Covid in a child’s education. First of all, for any parent that is struggling. And that has a child that’s either suspected of having or does, in fact, have a qualifying disability for special education. Covid taught us firsthand how terrible remote learning, predominantly was for most kids and moms and dads, grandparents, babysitters, you know, pairs.

 

00;10;29;14 – 00;11;04;10

Jeffrey Forte

They took on a role of of principle social worker, school psychologist, paraprofessional, English, math and science teacher all in one. And, parents actually saw where their child may or may not be benchmarking against grade level performance during Covid. And that anecdotal evidence, then could be brought to school saying, listen, I was here firsthand and and I didn’t see my child being able to achieve any of the benchmarks that you’re stating my child has received.

 

00;11;04;13 – 00;11;37;01

Jeffrey Forte

So I’ve seen that increase. Another another big part where there’s been an increase as a result of Covid is parental participation in school meetings relating to a child’s disability because they’re now remote, rather than actually having to physically drive to your child’s school, take a half day off some type of work in the city, take a full day off just to have a 45 minute to an hour meeting with your child’s school team.

 

00;11;37;04 – 00;11;45;24

Jeffrey Forte

And it really is important that dads go to these meetings. It really says something to the team when mom just shows up.

 

00;11;45;26 – 00;11;58;10

Paul Sullivan

Right? So if you can if if the child has parents who are married and together, it is it’s really important for them to present almost a united front like, hey, we’re in this together. We’re the mom, were the dad, we’re here. And that that matters. Correct?

 

00;11;58;12 – 00;12;32;01

Jeffrey Forte

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, for parents that may be separated. It’s important to know who has the educational decision making authority over the child, because you can have a very amazing dad, but the the mom and dad are separated, and the dad wants to be part of the IEP meeting. And oftentimes I may have, you know, separated spouses aligned in deputizing me to advance their child’s education.

 

00;12;32;04 – 00;12;35;27

Jeffrey Forte

Even though there might be extraneous disagreements about other things.

 

00;12;35;28 – 00;12;55;16

Paul Sullivan

Right, right. Well, that that kind of leads into a question in a bit of a softball question here. But, you know, when parents go to you, when they go from, you know, trying to figure this out on their own, participating in and then paying you, I mean, your attorney paying you for your services to, to negotiate on their behalf or to advocate for them or to at least, you know, advise them behind the scenes.

 

00;12;55;23 – 00;13;07;08

Paul Sullivan

You know, I’m sure you do all kinds of different things, but, you know, what should they expect or what can they expect for you know what they pay you or any other attorney who specializes in special education?

 

00;13;07;10 – 00;13;40;16

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah, sure. So really kind of comes down to three things that a family would be seeking legal counsel on. Okay. The first is almost guaranteed when a parent is seeking to engage a parent based special education lawyer. It’s because there’s been a breakdown in communication between the parent team. And I’m using that term rather loosely. You know, mom and dad or separated parents, you know, same sex parents, so forth.

 

00;13;40;18 – 00;14;15;19

Jeffrey Forte

Grandparents and the school team whereby the parents are not feeling validated, they’re not feeling like they’re being heard and advancing their child’s case. And often that could be where there are, failing grades. There could be standardized benchmark assessments that are not being met at any remote equivalent of a grade level. There could be conduct referrals, behavioral challenges, suspensions or expulsions.

 

00;14;15;21 – 00;14;58;12

Jeffrey Forte

There could be, you know, self-harm issues or depression and anxiety issues that lead to things like, expulsions or arrests that are misunderstood. It could lead to school refusal and truancy where there’s chronic absenteeism. And there could be placement issues. So that’s the second thing. So having, an attorney go in to essentially shepherd the school team to do what they’re actually supposed to be doing, what they’re paid to do with the town’s district dollars is to educate the child.

 

00;14;58;14 – 00;15;17;21

Jeffrey Forte

If that process is failing. Oftentimes, a parent lawyer is going to engage and say, all right, so what supports does the child have. All right. So the child’s not going to school. We need someone to go to the home social worker to help get the child to school, because the parents are not able to successfully do it themselves.

 

00;15;17;24 – 00;15;38;27

Jeffrey Forte

But the second thing is where there might be an issue, on a continuum of of educational placements where a child may need a more specialized program that otherwise could not be provided in a neurotypical, you know, mainstream USA, public school?

 

00;15;38;29 – 00;15;48;06

Paul Sullivan

Do you mean like a kid who has, dyslexia or a kid who has sort of severe autism or more of a physical disability? What do you mean?

 

00;15;48;08 – 00;16;14;25

Jeffrey Forte

Sure. So it kind of runs the continuum. There are 13 primary eligibility categories under the individuals with Disabilities Education Act, and some of them are more cognitive, some of them more physical. Some of them are more behavioral, like you mentioned. You know, with cognitive it could be dyslexia or specific learning disability. It could be, you know, significant ADHD or A.D.D..

 

00;16;14;28 – 00;16;49;04

Jeffrey Forte

It could be emotionality. So it could be behavioral based disabilities, including, presenting on the autism spectrum. Yeah. Or it could include other, you know, physical handicaps, including blindness or deafness or, you know, significant gross motor delays whereby accessing a public school with 20 kids in a general ed classroom is not delivering a free, appropriate public education to meet that child’s needs.

 

00;16;49;06 – 00;17;16;11

Jeffrey Forte

And when the district, is in disagreement as to what a parent may want, you know, some of these placements can cost over, you know, a half $1 million a year with transportation. And, you know, they’re just not going to give that type of, education over willingly unless, sometimes they need to talking to or loss to get.

 

00;17;16;11 – 00;17;19;03

Paul Sullivan

Some, any other guy to do the talking to you.

 

00;17;19;06 – 00;17;20;14

Jeffrey Forte

That’s right, that’s right.

 

00;17;20;17 – 00;17;32;13

Paul Sullivan

You know, this may seem like a silly question, but, you know, you said it’s a you know, it’s a federal statute. You know, that, that the states have to adhere to. I mean, are some states better at special education than others? Are all 50 states more or less the same?

 

00;17;32;16 – 00;18;00;08

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. Know without a doubt. There are states that are not conducive to raising a child with a disability. And then there are states that are very conducive, to having raising a child with the disability. And then, of course, you know, kind of speaking in generalities. But then within each state, there are pockets of districts that are better than others.

 

00;18;00;10 – 00;18;25;17

Jeffrey Forte

Obviously, you know, even in Connecticut. And then, statistically speaking, the directors of Special Education, which oversee these plans, you know, there’s a high burnout rate. I mean, this is a very intense job with, with parents that can sometimes, you know, be argumentative, understandably, because they’re not asking.

 

00;18;25;19 – 00;18;27;05

Paul Sullivan

For their kid to get a good education. Yeah.

 

00;18;27;11 – 00;18;56;01

Jeffrey Forte

Right. So what, your child’s IEP team may look like today is it might not be the same players, you know, next year or five years from now. Right. Which is why it’s so important for moms and dads to be the forever remaining member of their child’s school team, because you can have historical knowledge that new incoming school team members may not have ever had.

 

00;18;56;03 – 00;19;04;03

Paul Sullivan

Yeah. I mean, this isn’t, baseball, but I can’t help myself but ask this question, like, what are the top three states in the country for? For special education?

 

00;19;04;05 – 00;19;12;18

Jeffrey Forte

I would say, you know, it’s a little fluid from year to year, but predominantly Connecticut, new Jersey and Massachusetts are within the top three.

 

00;19;12;23 – 00;19;18;13

Paul Sullivan

Okay. And are you are you are you allowed to say like, what are the worst three or do you know?

 

00;19;18;15 – 00;19;28;25

Jeffrey Forte

You know, some of the more rural, states just they don’t even know what an IEP is. I mean, it’s pretty egregious.

 

00;19;28;27 – 00;19;47;05

Paul Sullivan

How did they get away with this? I think it is a federal statute. Your kid, you know, doesn’t choose where he or she is born. Your kid doesn’t choose if if he or she has some sort of, you know, learning disability, physical disability, cognitive. How do they get away with not providing, you know, or living up to a federal standard?

 

00;19;47;07 – 00;20;11;20

Jeffrey Forte

You know, I think part of it is parents need to get this knowledge. They need to know what their child’s rights are. Just like the average American knows, if they are ever presented with being arrested, they have a right to remain silent pursuant to their Miranda rights. Parents need to know their child’s rights if they have a disability.

 

00;20;11;23 – 00;20;41;02

Jeffrey Forte

And, oftentimes the younger the child, the less knowledgeable the parent is because they’re going through it. Sure, in real time at firehose speed. Right? But if I’m meeting with a family that has a, you know, 17 year old that they’ve gone through 100 IEP meetings in their child’s lifetime, they can call BS at a school meeting like anybody.

 

00;20;41;04 – 00;21;10;07

Jeffrey Forte

Right. So one of the things that I try to do is empower parents to understand their rights. I’m part of a national organization. The acronym is Copa Copa AA, which stands for Council of Parents, Advocates and Attorneys. And it’s open to parents. And there’s an annual conference. I serve on the attorney development committee to it, and you’d be amazed what the differences are in states that are not specifically following the idea.

 

00;21;10;10 – 00;21;11;27

Jeffrey Forte

It’s it’s unbelievable.

 

00;21;11;29 – 00;21;30;11

Paul Sullivan

And if you happen to be, you know, a parent who lives in a state that that doesn’t have a very good special education system, and, you know, you lived there before you had kids. You move there because that’s where your job is. You know, any number of reasons. What do you do? Are you are you faced with just, litigating or not having another option?

 

00;21;30;11 – 00;21;32;07

Paul Sullivan

Like, what are your options in a state like that?

 

00;21;32;09 – 00;22;15;07

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. So your options are primarily the same across the country in that you can resolve it. You can attempt to resolve it first through what’s called an IEP meeting, Individualized Education Plan meeting. Each state calls it something else, like in Connecticut, it’s called a planning and placement team meeting. It’s a lot of alphabet soup vernacular. But the point is the first the first approach would be to attempt to resolve it at the school based team meeting with your director of special ed, your special education teachers, you know, the school psychologist, the paraprofessional, perhaps the superintendent.

 

00;22;15;08 – 00;22;33;03

Jeffrey Forte

Right. But then if that does not work, you may need to engage in getting outside evaluations that you can either attempt to get the district to fund through the law under this, prong of the individuals with Disabilities Act.

 

00;22;33;03 – 00;22;45;08

Paul Sullivan

But but essentially, like if you if you think the person evaluated your child at that school or in that school district didn’t do a great job, you can get a similar person to do that evaluation and then bring it to the school. Is that is that what you’re saying here?

 

00;22;45;10 – 00;22;56;05

Jeffrey Forte

That’s correct. And that’s if the school agrees to do it. If the school agrees to not fund it, they would have to institute what’s called a due process administrative, actually get to the parent.

 

00;22;56;11 – 00;22;59;05

Paul Sullivan

How much does something like this cost a parent out of pocket?

 

00;22;59;07 – 00;23;36;27

Jeffrey Forte

Oh my goodness. It can it can get incredibly expensive. Incredibly expensive. I mean, if you’re talking about a school that cost a quarter of a million to a half $1 million per year, and you have a young child, that needs to access that school till the age of 21 or 22, talking millions and millions of dollars. And, you know, school districts often outsource the defense of their of their district to major law firms that exclusively represent boards of education.

 

00;23;37;00 – 00;24;15;00

Jeffrey Forte

So boards of Eds are then paying those school defense district lawyers, you know, tens of thousand dollars for just one due process hearing. But yeah, on the parent side, you’re if you win a successful case, you’re talking six figures and legal fees that under the fee shifting provision of the law, if a parent wins a hearing, a parent gets what’s called prevailing party status, and under the fee shifting provision, the parent can then say to the district, right.

 

00;24;15;00 – 00;24;43;11

Jeffrey Forte

Well, listen, we had no choice because you said no to us. So we instituted a due process action. We hired this this lawyer over here. Here’s our fees that we owe him. We won. We are now seeking a court order for you, the district, to pay our lawyers fees. There are some lawyers that will do these types of cases that I handle primarily on exclusively on contingency.

 

00;24;43;13 – 00;24;58;01

Jeffrey Forte

It kind of depends on state to state. But oftentimes it can be a hybrid model where there’s like a cap where you’re paying your parent lawyer a certain amount because your parent lawyer strongly feels.

 

00;24;58;04 – 00;25;00;09

Paul Sullivan

That if you have a case, he can win.

 

00;25;00;09 – 00;25;08;01

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah, right. So there’s upfront costs, but then it’s capped. So you know now that at least you’re not incurring, you know, in perpetuity.

 

00;25;08;03 – 00;25;25;24

Paul Sullivan

But I mean a process that’s already, you know, emotional a process it’s already sort of intimidating is you against the school district on behalf of your child is now sounds, you know, costly beyond many parents means unless they can find an attorney who will do this this fee shifting agreement. Is that correct?

 

00;25;25;24 – 00;25;50;19

Jeffrey Forte

That’s right, that’s right. And you know, oftentimes, you know, I represent families of all of all walks of life, of all financial means. I, you know, not to sound a little cheesy, but I really want to be a lawyer for the people. You know, I, I thrive on representing the underdog when the underdog is a child that has otherwise gone unheard and uneducated.

 

00;25;50;21 – 00;26;20;24

Jeffrey Forte

And oftentimes parents will have to rely on greater family to to get some funds together or take out a second mortgage or tap into college fund money that a child may need right now in order to potentially even get to a point of independence or, you know, group home living. Yeah, once the parents are unable to care for their child.

 

00;26;20;24 – 00;26;36;27

Jeffrey Forte

So early intervention upfront is incredibly important in these cases. And, and, you know, it’s a tough pill to swallow when you’re dealing with a family that’s just coming to the realization.

 

00;26;36;29 – 00;26;38;07

Paul Sullivan

Yeah, not all at once.

 

00;26;38;07 – 00;26;41;23

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. You know, their child has a disability. You know, the last.

 

00;26;41;23 – 00;26;57;28

Paul Sullivan

My child has a disability, my child can’t go to the public school in the town that we move because we believe that good schools, we had to move here for for work. And it’s going to cost me tens of thousands of dollars, if not more, to to get what my child is federally entitled to.

 

00;26;58;01 – 00;26;59;05

Jeffrey Forte

Right? Yeah, right.

 

00;26;59;11 – 00;27;19;26

Paul Sullivan

I can imagine, you know, what would make you angry? When you’re going, you know, advocating as each other against the district, I can imagine a recalcitrant district, you know, digging in their heels. Now, I can imagine any number of scenarios where you would be angered. I do, but when it’s when what angers you when you work with parents, what are the parents that you know, the fathers and the mothers.

 

00;27;19;26 – 00;27;30;18

Paul Sullivan

But what are the parents who don’t get it in some way, or who are not approaching this process as you think they should? What what what angers you about about dads and moms?

 

00;27;30;21 – 00;27;45;18

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. You know that, that’s a great question because, I become a little jaded in, in the practice in the sense that I can kind of smell B.S. from the minute when I’m meeting with the family. And I’ve actually offered.

 

00;27;45;19 – 00;27;49;16

Paul Sullivan

You a jaded attorney. I’ve never. I’ve never heard of that before, so.

 

00;27;49;18 – 00;28;13;16

Jeffrey Forte

Right. I, I’ve actually authored a lot of blogs on this that here are what I feel parents expectations of an experienced attorney should be. And likewise, here are what my expectations of a parent should be when they’re going to engage an attorney, any attorney, any any experience doesn’t have to be me, but any parent. Special ed based attorney.

 

00;28;13;18 – 00;28;40;07

Jeffrey Forte

And there’s a couple things. Number one, both parents should absolutely be involved in all decisions. If I’m just meeting with mom or I’m just meeting with dad. Not to sound stereotyped here, but if you’re talking about your child’s education, it should be equally important to both parents on all grounds. So, if I’m just meeting with one, it’s not really, you know, going to work.

 

00;28;40;10 – 00;29;09;12

Jeffrey Forte

The other thing is, like, areas, other areas of the law, that could be, you know, kind of, you know, black and white. There’s a lot of shades of gray in this area where with the expectations and desires of what the parents want may not always clinically and educationally equate to the what to the what the child actually needs.

 

00;29;09;15 – 00;29;38;04

Jeffrey Forte

And it’s kind of a rites of passage and where you’re really relying on, educational evaluators and outside clinical evaluators to more fully inform a child’s programing. You know, I mean, you know, it’s kind of a red flag sometimes if I get a call and a families say, you know, yeah, I want the district to pay for a therapeutic program that has horseback riding lessons.

 

00;29;38;04 – 00;30;03;00

Jeffrey Forte

Okay, well, you know, good luck with that. You know, take it down the street. But I have had cases, you know, where we’ve had, children with reactive attachment disorder, with, dog therapy because they’re they’re actually, you know, developing a relationship with an animal that’s just selflessly going to show affection. So it kind of depends.

 

00;30;03;00 – 00;30;16;12

Jeffrey Forte

But, yes, you have to keep an open mind. I always tell parents I’m not here to do what you want me to do. I’m here to do what your child needs, and the two don’t always add up.

 

00;30;16;14 – 00;30;36;17

Paul Sullivan

It’s been great, Jeff. You know, I’ve just got me thinking. What? I was coming up with the idea for the Company of Dads and working on it. I spoke to, developmental pediatrician, sort of affiliated with Yale. Really smart person. You know, for listeners, a development pediatrician is to a regular pediatrician, like, I don’t know, a designated hitter is to a regular position player.

 

00;30;36;19 – 00;31;07;14

Paul Sullivan

And she said something that, you know, I haven’t been able to forget. And she said, there’s no more lonely dad than the father of a child with a disability. She said, you, a mother, a two with disabilities. They certainly struggle to find support. But there are, you know, some support groups out there, but the dads are really, you know, left in the, in the wilderness, when you hear something like this, I mean, what are some ways to make it, you know, less, less lonely or less onerous for, for the dads, you know, who have a child with with some sort of disability.

 

00;31;07;16 – 00;31;41;21

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. You know, it’s it’s really tough. You know, I have a I have a really good friend of mine who has a child with, with significant physical impairments. And he’s kind of going through some, some medical insurance disputes right now that just keep pecking away at him. Right. It’s not to the level where, he wants to get a lawyer involved, but at the same time, he’s probably if you look at his hourly rate with work, he’s probably, you know, several thousand dollars deep into, insignificant phone calls with people on the other side.

 

00;31;41;23 – 00;32;31;00

Jeffrey Forte

You know, you really need to connect yourself within the communities, right? Part of the law actually includes parental counseling. And parents often think, well, I don’t need the the district, my kid’s district, or my kid’s school team to tell me how to be a parent. That’s offensive. But the counseling component can be, talking with your school team on a regular basis to find how they are successfully accessing your child during the day, and then using some of those strategies into the home and in the community to promote a generalization of those strategies.

 

00;32;31;02 – 00;33;05;06

Jeffrey Forte

And oftentimes, I’ll find that the more communicative a dad is with the child’s school team, the more they’re generalizing the skills, because parents can be taught these skills in the home and in the community setting. So really, you got to really just kind of take take your pride out of it. If you have that and contact your school team, monthly meetings with your school team, you know, to, to to review data and progress.

 

00;33;05;06 – 00;33;30;01

Jeffrey Forte

Yeah. You might have a difference of opinion as to what your child is progressing at. What’s their skill acquisition rate at? There’s also a lot of Facebook groups out there. I know, particularly in Connecticut, there’s a lot of Facebook groups for families of children with disabilities just to kind of connect, to feel like there’s an identity of other similarly situated parents out there.

 

00;33;30;05 – 00;33;35;13

Jeffrey Forte

Social media is become a really big, opportunity on on that front.

 

00;33;35;16 – 00;33;53;15

Paul Sullivan

Right. Jeff Forte, thank you so much for joining me today in the Company of Dads podcast. We been talking with Jeff Forte, special Education attorney in the state of Connecticut, host of the national podcast, Let’s Talk Sped law. Before I let you go, last question. What’s with the farm like? What do you have on on the farm?

 

00;33;53;15 – 00;33;58;05

Paul Sullivan

Is this like for the movie version of your life? Like, you know, 30s what’s what’s on the farm?

 

00;33;58;11 – 00;34;26;26

Jeffrey Forte

So really quick, at the peak of Covid, you know, Covid pandemic round one, my wife and I decided to do a little bit more farm to table type of living. So my wife bought two chickens. And anybody that’s a farmer knows that chickens are the gateway animal to a farm. We then we then sold our house in, lower New Haven County, Connecticut, to incoming New York people that wanted to get out of the city.

 

00;34;27;03 – 00;35;07;11

Jeffrey Forte

And there was just this crazy bidding war, and we moved out to the country, to a non-working farm where we now have, like, 60 farm animals we’re producing about, I don’t know, 2000 eggs a year. We’ve got a little seed, the farms called Ridge View Farm, and, it’s really more like a hobby farm. But the purpose of the farm is actually to serve families that have a child with this disability so they can come to a farm in a therapeutic environment to access and work with the animals, you know, kind of spend the day there and, get some social skill development with, with some farm animals.

 

00;35;07;11 – 00;35;18;12

Paul Sullivan

So I love this, Jeff. You know, some people in Covid, they started baking sourdough bread and they gained 10 pounds. You bought two chickens and now you have 60 animals in 2000. And eggs. This is a great show story.

 

00;35;18;14 – 00;35;28;21

Jeffrey Forte

That we’re doing. Vegetables too and stuff like that. But yeah, it’s been fun. And the boys, you know, my two sons, they have jobs on the farm now, so, it’s rewarding for that too, as well.

 

00;35;28;24 – 00;35;31;27

Paul Sullivan

All right. Thank you again. Jeff Forte, I appreciate your time today.

 

00;35;31;29 – 00;35;32;16

Jeffrey Forte

Thanks for.