Bearing the Burden of Financial Fatherhood

00;00;00;05 – 00;00;30;14

Zack Pumerantz 

What I see, especially with men. And I don’t want to, you know, make it a gender thing, but really, in men is, you know, kind of put our head down, have to work. And there’s like, this entanglement between our work and how much money we’re making and what our value is. Right. And there’s a lot of shame around not knowing where we’re going or what we’re trying to achieve, and the stresses of life all across the board and not knowing how to deal with them, or feeling overwhelmed by them.

 

00;00;30;17 – 00;00;50;06

Zack Pumerantz 

End up taking us away from our kids. Right? Naturally. Right. And so I think for dads, the biggest part is, is, you know, is one being self-aware and being able to have conversations around, hey, I don’t know, something.

 

00;00;50;08 – 00;01;13;27

Paul Sullivan

Welcome to the company, that podcast. I’m your host, Paul Sullivan. We’re focused on lead dads, working moms, and how small changes at home or work can have a big impact on their lives. Each episode promises to deliver actionable advice on some area of concern at home or at work. Short. Direct. Again. Actionable. Five questions. Five answers. Today, our guest is ack Pumerantz , a father of two.

 

00;01;14;00 – 00;01;40;04

Paul Sullivan

A boy and a girl. He’s gone from working at FanDuel to be an advisor, focus and helping fathers and families make better financial decisions. If that doesn’t sound salacious, what does the focus of his financial planning business really resonate with me? Tagline is a parent helping parents build strong financial foundations and lasting well. We’re going to talk today about strategies, particularly to fathers and parents in general around money.

 

00;01;40;11 – 00;01;50;19

Paul Sullivan

We’re also going to talk about how pressure changes and financial opportunities ebb and flow around money as kids come into the picture. Zach, welcome to the company Dads podcast.

 

00;01;50;21 – 00;01;52;22

Zack Pumerantz 

Appreciate you having me, Paul.

 

00;01;52;25 – 00;02;16;12

Paul Sullivan

Do you have an interesting story about how you became, a financial advisor, particularly one focused specifically on parents? So I’d love for you to open by by telling a little bit about that of that story. But then also, you know, toward the end, answer the question, you know, what really drove you to do this? And you know, what the parents in particular, their, need to know.

 

00;02;16;14 – 00;02;25;18

Zack Pumerantz 

Yeah. So I had always been interested in investing, and kind of understanding, you know, how to grow your money and the right ways to do it.

 

00;02;25;18 – 00;02;30;15

Paul Sullivan

And which is why you went to FanDuel. So you see, like, double or nothing. Triple or nothing. Exactly.

 

00;02;30;15 – 00;02;45;01

Zack Pumerantz 

It’s like the ironic, but it’s funny because when I got to FanDuel, I had no idea what I wanted to do. There was a time where I wanted to be a sports writer. And when I got to FanDuel, you know, risk management became my specialty. And then that was really in the early days of FanDuel. Now we see them on the ads everywhere.

 

00;02;45;01 – 00;03;04;13

Zack Pumerantz 

And it’s a whole different thing, right? A whole different world. But, you know, growing up I had always been really interested in investing and finance. And I kind of went deep on that. And I noticed, you know, people around me, people that worked for me, coworkers, higher ups, you know, really good at making money. But managing it was a whole nother animal.

 

00;03;04;16 – 00;03;20;10

Zack Pumerantz 

And so I was fascinated by it. I read the book value Investors of the world. And then I started to to realize that I could teach this. Right. I think there was a lack of knowledge. It wasn’t something that was taught. And as I got further, you know, I want it to have more of an impact.

 

00;03;20;10 – 00;03;39;16

Zack Pumerantz 

I realized that a lot of families struggled with this. A lot of people individually struggled with where to start. I don’t understand what to do with their money. You know, how to understand taxes and kind of the whole environment that that’s built out there. And I think we live in a society that taught very much of stock picking and of getting rich quick.

 

00;03;39;20 – 00;03;59;28

Zack Pumerantz 

Right. And we’re also in a society of spend, you know, of, of spend, you know, buy now, pay later type of situation. So what I really want to do was teach people about how to actually build the right foundation, you know, and really start from a place of, of how are you saving money? Where is that going?

 

00;04;00;02 – 00;04;29;08

Zack Pumerantz 

What are the specific investments you’re doing? How do we actually manage risk, and improve our long term outlook in a way that’s patient and almost stoic, right? I hate to always, you know, quote Marcus Aurelius, but it’s like the stoic approach of control. The controllables is really important. And I think not enough of us are taught that we’re kind of driven by society to think that slash and getting rich quick, which often is luck, drives our value and and what we’re doing in a world.

 

00;04;29;11 – 00;04;34;03

Paul Sullivan

You know, you’re on the wrong podcast. Ryan Halliday is the stoic that so we don’t even bring.

 

00;04;34;03 – 00;04;34;15

Zack Pumerantz 

I know.

 

00;04;34;15 – 00;04;41;09

Paul Sullivan

The the the Stoics here. You know, as fathers, we like to just wallow in the uncontrollable, of course.

 

00;04;41;16 – 00;04;50;21

Zack Pumerantz 

And that’s me. That’s why we I feel like you can you can look at things the right way. If you are aware that we all struggle with that. Right. So I’m right there in that with you.

 

00;04;50;28 – 00;05;08;15

Paul Sullivan

You know, before I get on to saying, gosh, I want to drill down a little bit deeper because, you know, when you and I had coffee a month or so ago, you know, you had this, this role among your, your some family members, I think later some friends were you kind of were the go to guy to look things over and say, look, here’s your financial plan.

 

00;05;08;15 – 00;05;24;29

Paul Sullivan

You know, I’m not sure, you know, if you’re getting the best out of it. And so this for you really came from, a place of like, deep interest is sort of like taking something you’re passionate like, like being a a hobby golfer and becoming a pro golfer, out of it. Or maybe being a hobby golfer, becoming a golf coach.

 

00;05;24;29 – 00;05;34;12

Paul Sullivan

It was really, you know, what was it that drove you to want to, you know, figure this out when it came to sort of financial plans and help your friends and family?

 

00;05;34;14 – 00;05;53;12

Zack Pumerantz 

I think it’s almost a situation where, yes, I was really interested in it. I think my grandfather, for that, he got me into it young. And then I kind of took off with it. And we always love challenging each other and having really deep conversations about, you know, really again, investments is where it started. But financial planning and an environment is so much beyond that.

 

00;05;53;15 – 00;06;14;01

Zack Pumerantz 

When it came to friends and family, I think I always had this kind of, assumption that the world was an X was experts. It’s like when people go into the workforce and they think everyone knows what they’re doing, and then they realize nobody knows what they’re doing. So I over time, I it started with some family, you know, they knew what I knew and kind of, you know, knew I was into it.

 

00;06;14;01 – 00;06;29;21

Zack Pumerantz 

And so I would start looking at things. Right. And then even friends and some extended family would start sending me, hey, here’s what my advisor sending me, right? Like most people have an advisor and most of the time that’s just a portfolio manager who you meet with once a year. They tell you you’re doing great and then you move on.

 

00;06;29;24 – 00;06;47;07

Zack Pumerantz 

And I kept seeing the same thing, right. It was this cookie cutter portfolio is based on a risk survey that someone took one time. A lot of baked in, you know, costs and things that they might not be aware of. And, you know, I think the idea was, hey, I can teach you to do all this, right?

 

00;06;47;07 – 00;07;04;18

Zack Pumerantz 

Like, you can the stuff that you’re getting from that advisor you could do on your own with, with kind of a, you know, just kind of a, a run through of an education and over time, you know, as I kind of continued to go through portfolios and help people, which I’ll be honest, that was like something I would do for free.

 

00;07;04;18 – 00;07;19;04

Zack Pumerantz 

And it was the most fulfilling thing in the world. Right? And so if I’m doing it for free, I know it’s something I love. Yeah. Going through that over and over, I felt, wow, I can really actually change lives. Like I think I can really this is way more impactful than what I’m doing at a, at a corporate level.

 

00;07;19;06 – 00;07;37;05

Zack Pumerantz 

Right? And I think helping families and creating security in a way, because money ultimately is security by building something and educating people on what it all means, which they’re not usually getting, really made me feel the best version of myself.

 

00;07;37;08 – 00;07;56;06

Paul Sullivan

I love it, you know. Question two let’s let’s drill down a little bit here. You know, the word provider is one, at the company that that we strive to redefine, particularly as it pertains to, to that, to fathers because, you know, historically, the word, you know, provider means the guy who goes out and makes money and brings some money home.

 

00;07;56;06 – 00;08;23;17

Paul Sullivan

And we really work to talk about provider being more, holistic. You know, obviously earning a living is very important. But, you know, also being there for your, your family, you know, being present when you’re with them, you know, the question is second question is, you know, what are some of, you know, the real emotional pressures that dads feel around money and how do you help them, deal with those pressures?

 

00;08;23;20 – 00;08;57;15

Zack Pumerantz 

That’s a great question. I think that we’re we’re taught that we can’t be vulnerable and we can’t, you know, look at ourselves and really change our minds. Right? And I don’t know who said this, but I heard this and it really resonated, which is, what’s the point in having a mind if we can’t change it? And so part of what I see, especially with men and I don’t want to, you know, make it a gender thing, but really in men is, you know, kind of put our head down, have to work.

 

00;08;57;21 – 00;09;24;07

Zack Pumerantz 

And there’s like this entanglement between our work and how much money we’re making and what our value is. Right. And there’s a lot of shame around not knowing where we’re going or what we’re trying to achieve. And, you know, and I don’t even mean this financially 100%, but really, like the stresses of life all across the board and not knowing how to deal with them, or feeling overwhelmed by them end up taking us away from our kids.

 

00;09;24;07 – 00;09;45;17

Zack Pumerantz 

Right? Naturally. Right. And so I think for dads, the biggest part is, is, you know, is one being self-aware and being able to have conversations around, hey, I don’t know, something, right? Or I, I struggle with this x, y, and z. And then the second part is knowing where to start. And they’re not taught that. It’s like we’re not taught emotional intelligence in school.

 

00;09;45;17 – 00;10;08;07

Zack Pumerantz 

We’re not taught financial literacy. We’re not taught any of these things. So how do you untangle these years of, for lack of a better word, you know, bad habits or lack of awareness of of how to actually make things potentially more successful and actually take stress off? That’s where I feel like our work comes in, where people think of finance as just spreadsheets and stock picking.

 

00;10;08;07 – 00;10;21;16

Zack Pumerantz 

And yeah, you know, what’s my rate of return? But it’s so much more than that. It’s what’s your foundation? What are the goals? How do they fit uniquely into what you’re trying to build. And that’s not a cookie cutter portfolio. That’s really an environment, a house that we’re building.

 

00;10;21;19 – 00;10;26;20

Paul Sullivan

Give me a specific example or two. You know, of how you’d help somebody like you.

 

00;10;26;22 – 00;10;43;14

Zack Pumerantz 

Yeah. So I mean, listen, and this is at all income levels, I mean, you could be making millions of dollars and you can’t save a dime, right? And so really, it doesn’t matter how well your investments are doing, if your rate of savings is not improving. So I think people left and right, they don’t understand. And I’ll keep it a little focused for now on investments.

 

00;10;43;17 – 00;11;10;20

Zack Pumerantz 

They don’t necessarily understand the risk that they have. Right. They might. A really good example of that is they might have, you know, a bunch of stocks or a bunch of index funds that potentially are overlapping. And so their exposure to certain areas or their exposure to a single stock is a lot higher than they realize, and that creates a lot more volatility in their environment than they even understand or what really, when you actually have a conversation away from finance about it with them.

 

00;11;10;22 – 00;11;29;01

Zack Pumerantz 

And again, everybody’s different. So I don’t want to one size fits all it. But I think one of the biggest things I do with people is, yes, investments are important. And yes, I love talking that and having that conversation. And, you know, it’s definitely a big thing we focus on. But beneath the surface of that, the foundation of the house is cash flow.

 

00;11;29;04 – 00;11;48;20

Zack Pumerantz 

So I’m much more interested in what is your rate of savings. Right. And that’s a system that I think. Listen, we’re all taught to put our best asset. And I don’t know if enough people think about it this way, but our best asset is our income, right. And so most people are taught best asset, direct deposit goes right into my checking account.

 

00;11;48;27 – 00;12;27;16

Zack Pumerantz 

And from there it blends with life. Everyone’s spending on life. We’ve got kids that gets more expensive every year. And everyone you know, most people have the intention of wanting to save, right? And they struggle with it. This is something I constantly hear if like a lack of awareness or clarity into cash flow. So rebuilding a system even at that level, which sounds extremely simple, but even reworking your cash flow system and creating a separation between your income increases and making sure your expenses aren’t increasing at the same rate as your income, that type of foundation makes you an unconscious saver rather than a spender, which is what we are all taught to do, which

 

00;12;27;16 – 00;12;43;11

Zack Pumerantz 

1. And we’re marketed to this by banks to say, hey, spend, open up check ins, do these things, but how do we rework the system underneath so that we don’t need willpower or constant budgeting to cut down what’s stressing us out?

 

00;12;43;14 – 00;13;03;08

Paul Sullivan

I love that, you know, question three and you kind of alluded to it, in the second part of that answer there, you know, assume we’re a couple, you know, husband, wife, husband, husband, wife, wife. That part doesn’t matter. You meet, you know, there’s a stage in our lives, you get your first job doesn’t pay so well, second job pays better, third job.

 

00;13;03;13 – 00;13;21;26

Paul Sullivan

So hopefully you keep making more money. Then you meet somebody, get together, and you have this sort of halcyon period where you’re both earning money, together, and your costs are less because you’re in a home or apartment or whatever. And then and you feel like, wow, I can do anything. And I’ve seen this so many times, I say, it’s the fancy car that people have before they have children.

 

00;13;21;26 – 00;13;35;22

Paul Sullivan

And, you know, it’s like, wow, look at them. They’ve got a Porsche, they’ve got a BMW. They go, whatever. And then as the kids come along, you know, kids are, expensive, at least for the purposes of this podcast, you know, talking about money, where do I. And they cost. And so, yeah, the first kid. Okay, we got this.

 

00;13;35;23 – 00;13;56;01

Paul Sullivan

You have the second kid there, and everybody’s focused on, child care. Child care. Very expensive in the beginning. But kids, they they continue to be expensive in different ways, even after you get them into school. And I think too often what happens is that people don’t adjust their, expectations, because they’re thinking, okay, we’re both working.

 

00;13;56;01 – 00;14;25;24

Paul Sullivan

We’re doing well. Here’s what we’re building toward. But at some point, you know, their mindset needed to change because, yes, they need to save. Yes, they need to maintain their income, but they also have, really big expenses in, in life. How do you help? You know, fathers in particular come to terms with that change. I often equate it to sort of if you’re not careful, you’re that lobster sitting in the pot and the lobsters find the pot in the heat keeps getting turned up.

 

00;14;25;24 – 00;14;47;09

Paul Sullivan

And next thing you know, you got a a lobster. How do you help? There’s not become that boiled lobster. And how do you help them find a healthier mindset, around money, you know, particularly as you said earlier in this podcast, you know, how do you help them actually change their mind, change things that they used to do to make it, you know, healthier for them and for their families?

 

00;14;47;11 – 00;15;09;28

Zack Pumerantz 

It’s a great question. I think, you know, we think we’re rational creatures and in reality, it’s all emotional, right, for all of us. So I think when it comes to that sort of thing, again, it comes to being honest about what’s there and what you know might change. Right? Look, the realities of parenthood and how that’s going to go.

 

00;15;10;00 – 00;15;21;23

Zack Pumerantz 

But I also think part of part of our approach and what I really like to focus on with new, you know, new parents especially, is here’s like a playbook, like a financial family playbook, you.

 

00;15;21;23 – 00;15;27;27

Paul Sullivan

Do with new parents, and you have, like, an illustration. There’s like a cliff, like everything’s going a lot. And then like, the cliff is right here. Exactly.

 

00;15;27;27 – 00;15;44;08

Zack Pumerantz 

Here’s a drawing of what’s going to happen, but here’s a layout, you know, here are all the things that are going to change a little bit, right? It’s just it’s just being honest. Right. It’s not. Here’s a dump, you know, email of things that are going to go on. But let’s work on this together. And here’s the roadmap of things that are going to change.

 

00;15;44;08 – 00;16;07;26

Zack Pumerantz 

And then what we’re going to do is we’re going to coach you through those things and give you opportunities or show you areas where you might not have known to look, so you don’t know what you don’t know. Right? And so even at a simple level, I think of, well, benefits to work, you know, ways you’re, you’re funding different accounts, accounts you can set up, you know, benefits from a tax perspective.

 

00;16;07;26 – 00;16;28;03

Zack Pumerantz 

You get all these different things again, are not, you know, kind of a silver bullet to it, but they will be different parts that help organize. Okay. Now I kind of have a little more clarity of what to expect and where. I have some opportunities which feel like small wins. And then over time, from a place like that, it’s almost like a lot of this is noise in our heads.

 

00;16;28;06 – 00;16;33;27

Zack Pumerantz 

And so we sit there and we kind of have it just filling up and it’s like, I have to do all these things, and if we can really just put you.

 

00;16;33;28 – 00;16;37;05

Paul Sullivan

In my head right now, my head is full of noise. Are you like that type of advice?

 

00;16;37;06 – 00;17;08;23

Zack Pumerantz 

It’s like, that’s us. That’s both of us. So I think the ability to kind of lay that out and say, I’ve got you here some clarity. We’re starting to fill in the painting together. It gives them a little more clarity, which opens up space for them to to kind of see what’s going on. I think beneath the surface of that, a lot of this and this happens in couples all the time, is people bring up beliefs and conversations that they had with their parents or with their family, especially at the dinner table.

 

00;17;08;25 – 00;17;26;21

Zack Pumerantz 

And you can learn a lot by someone by asking them, like, what were the conversations you had at the dinner table? Yeah. And so then you really see, okay, one person is terrified of of debt of even a more even a, you know, a historically low mortgage. The other couple is the spender. I mean, the other, you know, the spouse is the spender, right?

 

00;17;26;21 – 00;17;46;09

Zack Pumerantz 

And they’re just doing so there’s like this, this conflict that’s, you know, maybe hasn’t even come up yet, but you start to really balance the environment together and say, hey, you’re the things that are going to happen. We know where everyone is. Here are the steps we’re going to take, because the antidote to anxiety and stress, I think, is action a little bit.

 

00;17;46;09 – 00;18;04;11

Zack Pumerantz 

It doesn’t eliminate it, but I think it’s a good step. And then beyond that it’s like almost working with them along the way, but not just here’s the things you do financially, here’s how it’s going to feel. And I know it’s terrifying. And here’s the stuff that’s going on. And here’s the way we deal with that, right? It’s like giving them actionable items to work through.

 

00;18;04;13 – 00;18;12;24

Zack Pumerantz 

But you have to untangle like that. You know, the the inherited habits that they’ve had through their mindset, you know, through history of family.

 

00;18;12;24 – 00;18;29;27

Paul Sullivan

And I love that, you know, my previous life, you know, write about money at the New York Times. I got to know this guy named Brad Clontz and Brad Clontz. He’s a psychologist of of wealth, essentially. And he talks about money scripts. He’s written a lot about money scripts. And those are sort of the inherited beliefs that people have.

 

00;18;29;27 – 00;18;52;16

Paul Sullivan

And that’s, you know, without calling it that, that’s what you’re you’re talking about. And he always gives this great example, a simple example like, you know, mom and dad, two kids, they’re about to lose their house. And what happens next is really what’s going to, you know, impact their kids. You know, in scenario one, mom and dad figure out a way themselves to hold on to the house, and that becomes a family story.

 

00;18;52;16 – 00;19;10;12

Paul Sullivan

And scenario two, mom and dad get help from their parent, from the grandparents, and they save the house. That’s going to create a different, you know, money script. And scenario number three, mom and dad don’t figure it out. And they lose the house. And that creates a different money script. So I think it’s so impactful what you’re doing because, you know, you just you know it’s the cost.

 

00;19;10;12 – 00;19;27;16

Paul Sullivan

You can’t get a book by its cover. Like you see these people that come in, they’re having some success. You know, they’ve got, you know, good jobs, they know where they want to go. But unless you know how they feel about those simple things, it’s going to be really hard to put together a plan that will reduce their anxiety and that bill, they’ll stick to.

 

00;19;27;19 – 00;19;54;09

Zack Pumerantz 

Well, that’s 100%. I think that’s also understanding. And this is not just finances everything in life, but I think it’s it really is, especially in finance, that money is such an interesting you know, it kicks up such interesting emotions. Right. And it’s so much beyond, you know, it’s security. It’s it’s shame. It’s all these different things. Yeah. And I think, you know, in a weird way where there’s, there’s some therapy to this where it’s like, yeah, let’s talk about it.

 

00;19;54;09 – 00;20;26;06

Zack Pumerantz 

Let’s be real. And once you can open that with people, which is not always easy, but to open up that part of them and say, hey, yeah, I’m, I don’t know. Right. Or here’s what I’ve dealt with. The awareness is key to everything else. But if we’re if we’re stuck in this place of just don’t ask, I don’t want to have conversations about it, like at a family level, like they don’t want to talk, which a lot of times they’ve grown up in an atmosphere of that that becomes that shows the kids that, hey, this is something we don’t talk about, like we ignore.

 

00;20;26;06 – 00;20;29;04

Zack Pumerantz 

And then it it’s hard to get better from there.

 

00;20;29;11 – 00;20;47;08

Paul Sullivan

Yeah. And money becomes something that it isn’t made money as a means of exchange. But but one of our big problems in America is money has all this psychological baggage, attached to it. So, question for, you know, this is a company as we’ve been talking a lot about fathers, but but our tagline is helping families fulfill their full potential.

 

00;20;47;08 – 00;21;02;05

Paul Sullivan

So, you know, what can you do? What do you do specifically to help? Both parents come together around, you know, financial decisions, particularly as that pressure to juggle more and more at home ramps up?

 

00;21;02;07 – 00;21;23;17

Zack Pumerantz 

Yeah, I think, you know, I would probably go back to, to a little bit of the last part, which is, you know, it’s really about opening the door for conversations that aren’t financial. Right? So I think, listen, everyone wants to make more money. They want to grow their money. They want to save better. They want all those, you know, kind of higher level, almost obvious things of of course we want those things.

 

00;21;23;19 – 00;21;42;22

Zack Pumerantz 

But when you take it away from finance for a second, you say, let’s just talk about life. Like what does life look like? Forget finance, forget the type of account, the type of this or that, or, you know, trust whatever it might be. What do you want this to look like? And let’s start to align on those goals.

 

00;21;42;22 – 00;21;58;08

Zack Pumerantz 

And I think a lot of times you kind of just let people run with it, right? You don’t you don’t sit there and tell them, hey, do you want this? Do you want that? It’s kind of like, talk to me on a human level of what you’re looking at. And then we start to overlap those goals together and say, here’s how we’re going to serve those things.

 

00;21;58;08 – 00;22;18;21

Zack Pumerantz 

I think my industry and I think this is what kept me away for a long time, is inherently transactional, right? It’s like, hey, there’s a this product, there’s this investment, there’s this thing, there’s X, Y, and Z. For us, it’s really about the conversations are what are you trying to achieve? Everyone’s different. This needs to be like a bespoke approach.

 

00;22;18;24 – 00;22;35;07

Zack Pumerantz 

What are you trying to achieve and how do we find the things that help you get there. Right. Because you are going to be different than the next person. And you know it’s different than the next family. But from from a couple level, I think it’s really about, and it gets very interesting when you go through those dynamics.

 

00;22;35;09 – 00;22;59;13

Zack Pumerantz 

Talk to me on a human level of, of what you’re thinking. And listen, people are all different. Like, my wife and I are very different too. It’s like, how do you. But but it’s really bringing it together and saying, what do you you know, what are you guys trying to achieve as a family? And then at an individual level, how can we work through the things that you go through emotionally and financially to almost build a system around those things?

 

00;22;59;13 – 00;23;17;01

Zack Pumerantz 

Right. So if you’re if one the spender one’s a saver, one’s terrified of the market. One wants to be really aggressive. Right. There’s all these different things. How do you blend it together and create an environment that supports all of that? Right. And I think that’s why for us, it’s really the environment and it’s the balance.

 

00;23;17;01 – 00;23;21;13

Zack Pumerantz 

It’s not just you do this thing 100%, that’s it. It’s the environment.

 

00;23;21;16 – 00;23;43;19

Paul Sullivan

I mean, there’s obviously always a huge element of psychology when it comes to money and investing, but it I’m all silence here. Like, I mean, do you find yourself playing the role of of like traffic cop to make sure that, you know, if these two people say, we’re going to do the following things or the following things matter to us, you make sure they’re not going, you know, 50 miles an hour in a school zone or, you know, pulling over on the Merritt and, blocking the traffic.

 

00;23;43;21 – 00;23;58;09

Zack Pumerantz 

Well, you mentioned it earlier where, you know, they used to have the nice car. And the way I like to frame it for them is you can still have the nice car, but you need brakes on the car. Right. And so part of what we’re doing is in order to go fast and do all these things you want to do, we need brakes.

 

00;23;58;16 – 00;24;26;25

Zack Pumerantz 

And brakes are understanding your risk level and what’s going on across your environment and how different things are used. You know how investments perform better, ideally by not touching them depending on what they are right and working on savings, making sure you have the foundation to take care of the things that are going on. You know, a really good example of that is, you know, you meet people all the time and, you know, they might be struggling with something specific, like they might be saving, trying to save more, but they can’t.

 

00;24;26;25 – 00;24;46;10

Zack Pumerantz 

Or maybe they’ve even got debt. Yeah. That’s high interest on a credit card. And you’ve learned that they’re also funding their 41K or their 520 nines for their kids at a higher rate because society told them that if they didn’t, it was the wrong thing. Right. And yet that’s not actually helping their goal right now. Again, there’s always time.

 

00;24;46;10 – 00;25;01;06

Zack Pumerantz 

I don’t lightly say don’t do that. But if we look at a specific situation in this at that time for that person, I want them to know, hey, this is conflicting with what you’re trying to do on this side. And a lot of times it’s like people struggle to look at the whole environment and it’s not their fault.

 

00;25;01;11 – 00;25;23;00

Zack Pumerantz 

It’s just kind of like they haven’t been framed this way. And so if we can look at the whole thing and say, there’s almost like some cognitive dissonance here where you’re aiming for one thing and your goal is this, but you’re going against that here, just having those conversations and not not saying it’s bad or anything like that, but just having them understand that and giving them different strategies to think about.

 

00;25;23;03 – 00;25;52;18

Zack Pumerantz 

I do find it to be like freeing to it’s almost like instead of a traffic cop, I do sometimes feel like a family therapist where it’s like, you know, we’re trying to prevent divorce because most, most divorce. And that sounds, you know, extreme. But I feel like most divorce ends up, you know, because of money. So if we can really work on the money and the alignment and the open conversations, you know, the strategy will come and all the fun stuff we’re going to do together, that’s great.

 

00;25;52;18 – 00;25;59;22

Zack Pumerantz 

But like the foundation and the emotions is what’s actually going to drive a lot of the decisions that come in.

 

00;25;59;24 – 00;26;12;06

Paul Sullivan

This is awesome. You know, question, you know, five, has your definition of wealth changed since becoming a father?

 

00;26;12;08 – 00;26;30;12

Zack Pumerantz 

For sure. I think that I grew up, like most of us, where it’s what is your job look like? How much money are you making? How much? What’s your portfolio look like? What’s your rate of return? How’s you know, how are you building up your kind of, you know, nest eggs? And as you become a father and it’s not easy.

 

00;26;30;12 – 00;26;50;19

Zack Pumerantz 

It’s a struggle for many dads. And it can be isolating, too, of having to deal with a lot of things that you haven’t dealt with before. And having to make a lot of decisions there. I think the definition of wealth for me has changed into more presence and security of like, I want to make sure my family’s taken care of.

 

00;26;50;21 – 00;27;08;19

Zack Pumerantz 

I want to make sure that I can be with my kids and have the freedom to not be locked into work all the time, right? You know, I love what I do. I also want the freedom to be with them and to make decisions that are better for them, right? Where I can be at their practice or their games or, you know, that type of thing.

 

00;27;08;19 – 00;27;45;02

Zack Pumerantz 

I think wealth, when I really reflect on it and think about it, you know, unless you’re really interested in it, I don’t think people care so much about investing. They really have been taught to be obsessed with it. But in reality, they’re just they just want security. They just want to know they’ll be okay. Right. And so ultimately, if you reframe that with people and I think for me, I’ve, I’ve looked at it for myself where, yeah, I just want, I want to build security for my family but have the freedom and you know, the, you know, ability to be present with them, which is tough.

 

00;27;45;02 – 00;28;00;07

Zack Pumerantz 

I know for so much of, you know, of the world now we’ve got our phones, we’ve got work. It’s nonstop. And it’s hard to disconnect sometimes. So I think wealth for me has changed too. It’s very much a family focused thing.

 

00;28;00;09 – 00;28;10;06

Paul Sullivan

I was going out on a limb with that question. I’m so glad you didn’t say, like, you know, when I was at FanDuel, I always double down on the New York Jets. Now I bet on the New York Giants. They’re a better bet. I’m so glad that was.

 

00;28;10;09 – 00;28;11;27

Zack Pumerantz 

I’m a lifelong Jets fan. I’d never go, oh.

 

00;28;11;27 – 00;28;12;27

Paul Sullivan

My goodness.

 

00;28;13;01 – 00;28;13;17

Zack Pumerantz 

Never about.

 

00;28;13;17 – 00;28;15;04

Paul Sullivan

That. Because your life I’ve.

 

00;28;15;06 – 00;28;16;26

Zack Pumerantz 

Never bet on the Jets.

 

00;28;16;28 – 00;28;43;25

Paul Sullivan

Bonus question here. Bonus question here. Call it 55B. You know, you can just answer personally. You can answer it from your client. But, you know, what do you think are the financial values that are most important to model for your children? So they actually see you embracing them? And instead of listening to you tell them, well, what are those values that you think are most important to pass down?

 

00;28;43;27 – 00;29;04;02

Zack Pumerantz 

Patience and consistency. I think it’s key. It’s boring. Right? It’s not exciting. It’s not flashy. It’s not. They bought some stock and made 1,000% on it. Right. It’s not the flashy stuff that the that people on social media will tell you they’re doing right, which you don’t see all the people that fail at that. Right. You only see the good stuff.

 

00;29;04;05 – 00;29;38;01

Zack Pumerantz 

So I think with, you know, with my kids, it’s really about trusting their process and their guide and, you know, doing really just understanding what they’re doing, being self-aware. But being consistent. Right. You know, I think that too many people react emotionally to what’s going on in headlines constantly, right? It’s all about headlines. Their, you know, their their whole financial environment is driven by what’s going on.

 

00;29;38;01 – 00;30;03;13

Zack Pumerantz 

That’s not in my control. Right. And so a lot of a lot of financial success really is based on emotional, you know, steadiness. Listen, we’re all anxious and stressed out and we’ve run through all these different emotions. But if you can be aware of that and you can set up almost like guardrails and systems for yourself, you can you can be successful.

 

00;30;03;13 – 00;30;22;02

Zack Pumerantz 

It’s like the, you know, you read the stories of people with modest, very modest salaries who for years continue to compound, you know, dollar cost averaging compound for years. You know, in a really low cost, broad index fund at a basic level. And they can, you know, really make a nice nest egg for themselves. They know.

 

00;30;22;05 – 00;30;31;00

Paul Sullivan

But when they die, they die in the small house and they leave like $11 million to the local library. And you’re like, why didn’t you buy the beach house? Come on.

 

00;30;31;02 – 00;30;40;18

Zack Pumerantz 

I know. Well, that’s what they wanted, right? Look at Warren Buffett. He lives in like a $31,000 house that he bought years ago. And, you know, I don’t think he, you know, he drives his old car, right? I mean.

 

00;30;40;21 – 00;30;45;03

Paul Sullivan

He does fly Netjets everywhere, so. So I don’t think he’s waiting in line, you know?

 

00;30;45;05 – 00;30;53;26

Zack Pumerantz 

Yeah, of course not. But, you know, it’s really about, you know, it’s really about having patience, I think. And we all struggle with that.

 

00;30;53;29 – 00;31;04;05

Paul Sullivan

Zach, there’s been remarkable. Thank you for being my guest on Company Dad’s podcast. Before we sign off, tell people how they can find you. How do they find if they want to talk to you more about what you can do for them?

 

00;31;04;08 – 00;31;29;23

Zack Pumerantz 

Appreciate you. So, our site is I am, dash financial.com. You can email me at Zach Pomerantz Zach cpu e r and z at I am-financial.com. We have a blog, where we write about a lot of different things. We have a podcast that we’re trying to get to this level, you know, so you can definitely find us.

 

00;31;29;25 – 00;31;36;08

Zack Pumerantz 

And we’re always here to have a conversation and look forward to to all of those conversations and, you know, hearing about people’s experiences.

 

00;31;36;10 – 00;31;40;23

Paul Sullivan

Perfect. Thank you, Zach, again, for being my guest on the Company Death Podcast.

 

00;31;40;25 – 00;31;42;19

Zack Pumerantz 

I appreciate you.

 

00;31;42;21 – 00;32;00;17

Paul Sullivan

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Company of Dads podcast. Really appreciate you tuning in week after week, trying to use this moment here to thank the people who make it possible. Number one, of course, Elder Mira, who is our podcast editor. We also have Skip Terry home to many of you know from Lead Diaries.

 

00;32;00;17 – 00;32;23;21

Paul Sullivan

He’s taken over our social media. Terry Brennan is helping us with our audience development, and Emily Servin is there, each and every day helping with the web development akin to any of this without, an amazing board, of advisors. So I just want to say thank you to all of you who help. And I want to say thank you to everyone who listens.

 

00;32;23;21 – 00;32;27;04

Paul Sullivan

And, hopefully you’ll tune in again next week. Thanks so much.